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NICE GUYS AND "NICE GUYS"
Dec. 6th, 2008 01:54 pmBefore you read further, take a look at this installment of xkcd. It's a more thought-provoking installment than usual, as customarily happens when the cartoonist turns the eye onto human relationships and interactions.
The strip, as well as many of the ensuing comments and linked material and such, addresses the concept of the Nice Guy, as opposed to actual nice guys. The Nice Guy, in that scenario, is a man in a platonic, friendly relationship with a woman, who seems to be always supportive and empathetic, who's always there for her -- but who does this not out of true and sincere respect and friendship, but from ulterior motives; he secretly wants to be repaid for his "kindness" with reciprocal intimacy, emotional and/or physical. And if that doesn't happen, he tends to view himself as somehow cheated -- and his "supportiveness" turns to (sometimes) mild misogyny; he complains that "women don't want nice guys, just jerks and bastards." In other words, it's all their fault he's alone. In other words, he's not really a nice guy at all, let alone a real friend -- he's a vulture.
My thoughts about the strip are mixed. I mean, I certainly share the cartoonist's (and many commenters') disdain and contempt for the Nice Guy (of either gender), for these false friends whose gestures of support mask a self-serving agenda and desire to possess. Their passive-agressiveness, sense of entitlement, disguised possessiveness and overall deceit can't be condemned enough. A real friend simply wants you to be successful, happy and fulfilled -- whether that involves him or not.
And yet ... there's a sense in some of the dialogues I've heard about the Nice Guy (not necessarily those sparked by this cartoon) that, to some people, every platonic male-female relationship is suspect ... that every man in a friendship with a woman is secretly hoping to eventually move that status out of friendship; that every man in such a friendship is Billy Crystal to the woman's Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally, expects the friendship to lead to the same place (spoiler alert, I guess) where that movie ended and will reveal his true colors if it doesn't. That every nice guy is a Nice Guy. And that's just not true -- and I'm not saying the cartoonist or even most commenters are suggesting so, but I've heard that claim made enough times. I've had several good female friends -- and I've occasionally been the supportive, sympathetic ear -- but, as far as I'm aware, I was not, am not in those friendships with ulterior motives. My friends are, just that, my friends; not people I'm hoping to erode into an acquisition. They're, well, my friends. (In the case of my Christian brethren, and, er, sistren -- I don't think there's a gender-specific term -- they're people I consider my sisters.) I want the best for them, including in their relationships -- I want their marriages to be successful and fulfilling, for instance. My friends, female and male, are people whose well-being I value/support/promote and whose company I enjoy. Period.
Well, ellipse, anyway.
Because I also recognize that there is a fluidity to our motives, both over time and at the same time. I realize that the narrative voice in the comic strip is an artistic conceit, a revelation into the narrator's consciousness and subconsciousness, and isn't meant to indicate he's a moustache-twirling villain (stick figures don't have moustaches) revealing his nefarious plans -- and, for that matter, the cartoonist seems to suggest, rightly, in the panel about "I'll tell myself ..." that there's self-deception going on as well. A lot of Nice Guys, I would imagine, don't actually realize that they're being deceitful -- some of them, I would guess, at least start out with sincere intentions of friendship, find themselves growing closer to the woman and hoping that perhaps it will lead, organically, to something more. And I don't think they've crossed the line into actual Nice GuyHood at that point -- I do believe that good relationships can arrive out of good friendships, a concept the cartoonist seems to dismiss in one of the early panels. They cross the line into Nice Guy territory when they begin to develop an attitude of entitlement -- that they're owed some kind of "return" on their emotional "investment." A Nice Guy might start out as an actual nice guy. The reverse can happen, as well.
So ... where am I going with this?
Not sure, except that the cartoon and ensuing comments simply re-emphasize to me the need for honesty in all human interaction -- including honesty with one's self. The need to, periodically, examine one's own motives and identify any patterns that are unhealthy toward oneself or others. And to be as upfront and transparent as possible with people one cares for so there isn't an unspoken undercurrent/tension. If the mark of the Nice Guy is selfishness and deceit, then honesty seems to be the hallmark of healthy human interaction. As usual.
So end my rambling ruminations. Your thoughts?
Words: "Why I Blog" by Andrew Sullivan (article in a recent Atlantic
Sounds & Images: "Merry Go Round" (Solas)
State O'Mind: Thoughtful
The strip, as well as many of the ensuing comments and linked material and such, addresses the concept of the Nice Guy, as opposed to actual nice guys. The Nice Guy, in that scenario, is a man in a platonic, friendly relationship with a woman, who seems to be always supportive and empathetic, who's always there for her -- but who does this not out of true and sincere respect and friendship, but from ulterior motives; he secretly wants to be repaid for his "kindness" with reciprocal intimacy, emotional and/or physical. And if that doesn't happen, he tends to view himself as somehow cheated -- and his "supportiveness" turns to (sometimes) mild misogyny; he complains that "women don't want nice guys, just jerks and bastards." In other words, it's all their fault he's alone. In other words, he's not really a nice guy at all, let alone a real friend -- he's a vulture.
My thoughts about the strip are mixed. I mean, I certainly share the cartoonist's (and many commenters') disdain and contempt for the Nice Guy (of either gender), for these false friends whose gestures of support mask a self-serving agenda and desire to possess. Their passive-agressiveness, sense of entitlement, disguised possessiveness and overall deceit can't be condemned enough. A real friend simply wants you to be successful, happy and fulfilled -- whether that involves him or not.
And yet ... there's a sense in some of the dialogues I've heard about the Nice Guy (not necessarily those sparked by this cartoon) that, to some people, every platonic male-female relationship is suspect ... that every man in a friendship with a woman is secretly hoping to eventually move that status out of friendship; that every man in such a friendship is Billy Crystal to the woman's Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally, expects the friendship to lead to the same place (spoiler alert, I guess) where that movie ended and will reveal his true colors if it doesn't. That every nice guy is a Nice Guy. And that's just not true -- and I'm not saying the cartoonist or even most commenters are suggesting so, but I've heard that claim made enough times. I've had several good female friends -- and I've occasionally been the supportive, sympathetic ear -- but, as far as I'm aware, I was not, am not in those friendships with ulterior motives. My friends are, just that, my friends; not people I'm hoping to erode into an acquisition. They're, well, my friends. (In the case of my Christian brethren, and, er, sistren -- I don't think there's a gender-specific term -- they're people I consider my sisters.) I want the best for them, including in their relationships -- I want their marriages to be successful and fulfilling, for instance. My friends, female and male, are people whose well-being I value/support/promote and whose company I enjoy. Period.
Well, ellipse, anyway.
Because I also recognize that there is a fluidity to our motives, both over time and at the same time. I realize that the narrative voice in the comic strip is an artistic conceit, a revelation into the narrator's consciousness and subconsciousness, and isn't meant to indicate he's a moustache-twirling villain (stick figures don't have moustaches) revealing his nefarious plans -- and, for that matter, the cartoonist seems to suggest, rightly, in the panel about "I'll tell myself ..." that there's self-deception going on as well. A lot of Nice Guys, I would imagine, don't actually realize that they're being deceitful -- some of them, I would guess, at least start out with sincere intentions of friendship, find themselves growing closer to the woman and hoping that perhaps it will lead, organically, to something more. And I don't think they've crossed the line into actual Nice GuyHood at that point -- I do believe that good relationships can arrive out of good friendships, a concept the cartoonist seems to dismiss in one of the early panels. They cross the line into Nice Guy territory when they begin to develop an attitude of entitlement -- that they're owed some kind of "return" on their emotional "investment." A Nice Guy might start out as an actual nice guy. The reverse can happen, as well.
So ... where am I going with this?
Not sure, except that the cartoon and ensuing comments simply re-emphasize to me the need for honesty in all human interaction -- including honesty with one's self. The need to, periodically, examine one's own motives and identify any patterns that are unhealthy toward oneself or others. And to be as upfront and transparent as possible with people one cares for so there isn't an unspoken undercurrent/tension. If the mark of the Nice Guy is selfishness and deceit, then honesty seems to be the hallmark of healthy human interaction. As usual.
So end my rambling ruminations. Your thoughts?
Words: "Why I Blog" by Andrew Sullivan (article in a recent Atlantic
Sounds & Images: "Merry Go Round" (Solas)
State O'Mind: Thoughtful
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